We're In The Upside Down Now

Andrew's still M.I.A. but Findlay Marks and Laura Brannan are back once again to pour over the never-ending drama of the best Premiership race in decades.

With the possibility of Hearts winning a historic title as early as Wednesday night, we spoke to journalist and author Anthony Brown about what it would mean for the Jambos - and Scottish football - if they can finish of the season on top.

On the international scene, there were a raft of new nonsense stories surrounding the World Cup, including players having to wear 'L' plates on their shirts at the tournament.

And is two different teams both playing away games at their former home stadiums the most peak Scottish football thing of all time?!

RUNNING ORDER:
00:00: INTRO: Watching John McGinn fire Aston Villa to a European final, Ryan Christie clearly has the World Cup on his mind, and is Michael Beale really the best coach to get advice from?

07:02: WORLD CUP UPDATE: Shakira, school holidays and endless opening ceremonies...

17:32: THE TITLE RACE: Celtic eliminate Rangers from the title race and make ground on Hearts, but should all eyes be on Motherwell this week and their potential to be king-makers?

24:41: HEARTS: The Jambos are on the brink of history but it's going to be a nervy last two games. We're joined by journalist, author and Hearts fan Anthony Brown to discuss what it could mean for the Gorgie Road side if results go their way this week...and if they don't...

25:40: SPFL ROUND-UP: Killie took a huge step to securing their Premiership status, and we look at all the biggest stories from the playoffs in the lower leagues.

48:43: OUTRO

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Scottish Football Show. Hearts and Celtic are left to fight out for the title as Rangers finally fall away. But how much say will Mother Will have in the direction of that helicopter? Scottish success in Europe. John Diggan could be lifting a Europa League trophy as a warm-up for July. And talking of the World Cup, dust off those hips. Shakira is back to save the shambles of a tournament. Laura, we said we couldn't promise anything last week with Andrew actually turning up for today. And uh our worst fears have been realised. To be fair, he's had an incredibly busy day covering the uh the National League playoff final. I don't even know how it went. It happened while I was asleep. Boramwood versus Rochdale, yes, that Titanic battle of British football. Uh he was covering that today and um hasn't hasn't made it to the pod once again. So uh it's it's just us two.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, clearly the biggest game of the day Celtic Rangers, you know, our West Ham Arsenal, just everything takes a back step. But he has, he's a very hard-working boy, so it's back to the two of us again. Um it won't last forever, don't worry. He will be back one day. We we hope. We we think, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Can we get straight into some pretty exciting news? Because it th this kind of involves you and and and how your week was going. We'll we'll dispense with the pleasantries of how are you. You did have quite a good week this week because uh in the headlines there I was referencing uh the fact that John McGinn could be getting some practice in ahead of the World Cup, you know, lifting trophies uh as captain of Aston Villa. But uh you were there.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, yeah. He's uh he clinched our place in the final of the Europa League. Um, it was Villa against Forest in the semi-final, and yeah, two goals, two goals in three minutes. He scored late on in the second half to uh secure it. And um it was quite good because he he scored both goals into the net that I was right behind. And I think uh if you knew where I was standing for the game, you could probably just make out my big cheesy grin as he scuttled past me to celebrate. I was like, yay, yay, it happened. Woo! Um little things in life that please me when when you work for an English company or you work in England covering English football, it's the little things you try and grasp any sort of interactions with the Scotland players. Uh so that was good. And yeah, um a little bit of weightlifting, maybe getting done um in the the lead up to the World Cup final, hopefully. Because look, in all seriousness, though, I was I I kind of went into the game thinking, we can't lose here because if he goes out the competition, it's one less game for him to potentially get injured and be wrap him up earlier at the end of the season. So that's good. And if he does get into the final, great, because it's it's a wonderful experience for him, it's good um practice for the the games, and um how wonderful would it actually be just to see one of our players, one of our key players, lifting a European trophy just days before going to the World Cup. It's such it's such an iconic image to have in our head. I really, really hope we see it.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

He would be the first Scottish player to win a medal for a major European trophy, I think, since Billy Gilmer won the Champions League with Chelsea, which will be five years ago now. So about time, lads, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

And we have him as well. Yay! He's one of our two.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, and he joins Robo, I think, is the only other um player to have to have picked up a major European medal uh within that squad if he does so. Um, speaking about looking out for yourselves uh ahead of the World Cup, Ryan Christie's been a good boy this week, hasn't he? He he's thinking about the summer, he's on the beach already.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Ryan Christie sent off for serious foul play. What a naughty boy. No, let's not think of it that way. Okay, no, we're gonna positively spin this. What a good boy. He now misses what I think will be the last two games of the season. Um, outright ban for a nasty challenge, but he's getting his feet up. Again, he's getting wrapped up in Cottonwood. Um, that is exactly the things that we love to see, Ryan. Well done. Thinking of the greater good there.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Um, we might as well just stick on with a couple of the other news stories at the moment. Um, we waved goodbye to Marvin Bartley as uh the boss of Livingston. Davy Martindale was there for about a hundred years, and then very, very quickly, Martin Bartley came in at one point in the season and very, very quickly has gone out again. Amazing turn of events, and and from where the season started for Scott Arfield, that he started the season at his you know first professional club, Falkirk, and now he's ending the season as inter-emboss of relegated Livingston. This is this season in Scottish football, isn't it? In a nutshell.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah, like I think I think from the day that Marvin Bartley took over, it was um a very uphill battle that he was facing, not only in terms of league position, but also the club as well. We know how complex that club is behind the scenes. Um he yeah, okay, they got they got relegated. That was kind of what we all expected, but then it kind of emerged that the fact that the staff had to reapply for their own jobs essentially. Um, which look that happens so much in our line of work. Um, we've all been there before and had these horrible things happen. It's not something you normally think of happening inside a football club, at least in the football department. So for the own manager having to um prove his worth with an interview almost again. Um yeah, it's uh it's unfortunate circumstances, but I don't think any of us really expected him to stick around for too long, did we?

SPEAKER_01 5:39

I I I was hopeful when he went in there, although uh Andrew actually could speak more to this. But when he was at Queen of the South for again for a relatively brief stint, I don't think he was really pulling up any trees there. Maybe kind of selfishly. Not that I'm happy that Marvin Bartley's lost his job at at Livingston, but um I I do think he's actually a fairly decent pundit, so maybe maybe he's he's gonna go back into that rather than than managing. One thing I I did find interesting is Scotty Arfield made mention in his post match that he'd um spent a significant amount of time this week chatting to Michael Bale for some coaching tips. I thought, is that really the person that was topping? He might have been the only person that was available. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the most available coach that you could talk to, but there we go. I thought that was quite an interesting one. Um one tiny last bit of news. Stephen Whitaker's been appointed a new Sterling Albion manager. Uh I just feel we're fully into this period of time now where all the people that were established players when we were watching football growing up are now all retired and becoming the managers, and it's weird to see Laura. I don't like it. Can you make it go away, please?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Honestly, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Um, you know, Scott Brown as well, even Marvin Barclays are like you're just like, what? No, stop. I am getting too old.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

I don't know if we've got the budget or the clearance to play uh any Shakira as a sting. But but the lady is back. Shakira. Two World Cups have gone by with na Shakira music, and now she's released a song ahead of the World Cup. What are your thoughts on it, Laura? Because I feel like it's not quite as good as her most famous outing for this, but it's better than most of the pish that's come out about World Cup songs so far.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

It's been a horrendous run so far. I think the official one is some sort of country anthem that you would find in like a Ford Escort advert. It's um not World Cup vibes in the slightest. So we need this, we need Chiquina to come in and rescue us right now because um look we say it now, it's not quite the same calibre as her previous ones. But that's just because it's fresh and it's new, give it a few weeks, and by mid-July, it'll be the same nostalgia as all the other ones. The main thing is she's back, she's wearing very little, she's shaking her hips, and she's got a very catchy pop song. So, how can we not be happy about this?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I'm still waiting on you know, there was a bit of that trend, not not to give AI any credit, but there was a whole trend of like, you know, the French and the Brazil and the Portuguese teams all having AI songs made in the same kind of style, which is just like a stadium and some sort of like favela beat, and it's just the guy basically listing off the potential squad. I mean, it's not rocket science. I'm disappointed there's not been a Scottish version of that yet, if I'm being honest. Just like some guy being like, Milkyne! Domine Shankland, doing all this stuff, like shouting all the names out. Um there's there's still there's still time for that to happen, but I feel like that window might have passed. So I think Shakira might be the the best we've got to hope for. Virgin badges, Laura. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Oh, this is um, yeah, this is something. So every player that features of the uh who is featuring in their first World Cup will wear a badge on their shirt in the centre, um, in between like the the logo and the the country's emblem, um, saying debut is literally wearing an L plate around your neck. They are having this little shield that says the word debut so that they then can remove it afterwards, sign it, and FIFA can make money off it by putting them into trading cards afterwards. And considering this is the entire Scotland squad's first run out at a World Cup, um, probably half of England's as well. There's a there's many countries here, as many players, um, binding name players, you know, like Yamal for one, um, this will be their first ever World Cup. So this is there's going to be a lot of players that have uh these virgin badges on their chests.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Um you first told me about the story. I thought it was just the shirts of the teams who have qualified for their first World Cup. But what you're saying is this is every player who's not previously played a World Cup match has these VL stitchings in between.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah. And it's I think that the purpose is to is to celebrate the the youth of the future coming through and the prospects that we are then going to have in future World Cups, which is fantastic because Craig Gordon's going to have one on his trip.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

At 57 years old, isn't that magnificent? It just makes me think of I don't know if you've seen The In Betweeners, but the very first episode of The In Betweeners, uh, Will, who's like the kind of central character of the four young boys, is made to wear a hello, I'm new badge on his first day at school, and it just smacks of that. Obviously, it's done as a money-spinning thing, and I hope FIFA make a bit of money in it because God knows they need a little bit of extra money from this tournament, don't they? Yeah. Moving on to something else in the World Cup, school holidays. The Mexicans are doing it right, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Absolutely right. This is brilliant. The Mexican kids are finishing up school 40 days early. Ah. This is the sort of thing dreams are made of when you're at school. The government have decided to so they can fully enjoy the occasion. Um, they're finishing up on June the 5th, which is over a month before they normally finish up. This is brilliant. Uh I mean, I would have loved this as a kid, and I think everyone, even as an adult, should appreciate this. I think the only kind of people who don't are probably Scotland, considering that we got given a bank holiday for our first game, and then everyone decided to turn it into a political debate and uh knock them for it and say, Oh, we don't want a bank holiday, we want to work on our Mondays. Um, no, you don't. Don't be stupid. You're doing that because you don't like who's in charge of the country. That's the only reason you're having a complaint about it. Let's not make it into anything else. Um, you're miserable, and we should all be having a bank holiday, and well done to Mexico because the kids are gonna love it.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

They'll have plenty of time as well to enjoy not one, not two, but three opening ceremonies that we'll have for the tournament when it starts as well. This was uh this is tremendous, isn't it? One for each country. I mean, obviously, we have to say there are three host countries for the upcoming tournament in the summer, and each of them needs their own opening ceremony. It's as simple as that, Laura.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

And uh the American one will see it as a challenge to make theirs the biggest and the best out of all of them. And Canada and Mexico probably don't even care that much about it, even though the the thing is, Mexico should have the opening ceremony because they are literally the opening game, and this has probably all stemmed from the fact that America went, hold on a minute, no, we want one. So I've decided just to give themselves one. Um, they're also having not one, but two on the 4th of July as well, because it's Independence Day. Any excuse to have a, you know, a big concert on the pitch um and bring cold play along is they're gonna they're gonna jump at any chance they get.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Most countries will be forced to watch these, uh, but not all countries, because there's also potentially danger of some massive countries in terms of population not being able to see a lick of action at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah, this is a weird one. So the TV rates haven't yet been confirmed for China and India, and they make up 40% of the world's population.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So just a casual two billion there.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Yeah, there's a lot of people out there that are not going to get to see Scotland drawing nil-nil with Haiti. Basically, what it comes down to is FIFA want a lot of money from these countries. Um, they've already lowered their price already to over 200 million. Um, and China are already saying it's it's well above what they're like. I think I think it's like double what they want to pay because their argument is, well, they're not in it, so they're not going to be the same level of interest. And the time difference as well is going to make it very hard for people in China to watch these at sociable hours. So yeah, I kind of understand why they want a discount package for this one, but it'll rumble on, it will no doubt solve itself. But at this point in time, you think they'd have it already in under control. This is not a well-run World Cup yet, is it?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

No, um the whole thing seems to be in a bit of a bin fire. Uh, but a bin fire they'll charge a billion dollars for. Just to round out the World Cup news, uh, I was having a big moan about the price of Panini stickers in in a recent episode. The game's gone, I think, when you're charging two pounds a packet for something that might have Grant Hanley in it. But the the there's some news that it end of an era. Panini are ending its contract with FIFA after 60 years of providing the World Cup sticker album. Uh, it's tops uh fanatics, I think. And I'm not I'm not sure how that how it divides itself. They they're gonna take over.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Yeah, I I don't know how the comp the put the politics of the company, but they are whatever that is, it they're not panini. They're not the the the company that we know. Um and we said it before we qualified for the Euros um in 2020, where we kept going on about how it was just one of these token things that represent being part of a tournament that you you grew up as a kid, and we we had them as children without Scotland in them, and that was just what we were used to. And the novelty of then as an adult getting to buy a Panini sticker album with Scotland in it was so magical for us. Um, and it is even now when we're refusing to pay that money this year, it they're still the concept is still there, and we still appreciate it that it exists. Like, this there's still going to be sticker albums in the future, but it's just a little bit of an end of an era that they're not going to look and feel quite the same. I I I do hope there's still shinies in it, though.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

I'm sure there will be. I'm sure there will be. It it kind of feels like a Panini sticker album and like an Adidas World Cup ball, it's not a proper World Cup without those things happening. One's obviously far more crucial to the actual sport taking place than the other. But uh as a as a as a World Cup fan, you feel like yeah, it's an end of an era. Let's just hope that's not uh a harbinger for other things for the tournament.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

In in the exciting news though, I did I did the other night um have a moment, I think it was two in the morning line there in bed thinking, oh wait a minute, I've not ordered the 442 magazine. Um, and I have to order it because in England, obviously, you get the edition with the English players on the front of it. Of course. So um with a bit of digging, I managed to find the link to buy the Scotland one, and I can confirm it is now going to be arriving this week. I'm very excited to get the Scottish edition. Um, it's the little things that really add to the excitement of this.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

100%. And thank you for pulling this section about the World Cup back and giving us a positive news story to London. Laura. Well, I mean I mean, to be honest, last week there was only two. Rangers just made it absolutely rubber stamped and official by crapping the bed once again. This is the first time Rangers have lost three back-to-back league games since Dick Advocat was manager, so 25 years since Rangers have lost three games. What I really like was that Danny Rue, obviously pre-split, was saying we've got five cup finals left, and they went on a nice, wee, warm weather, intensive training camp to Spain in the week that they didn't have a Scottish Cup game to play, to come back rearing, ready to go, three defeats. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah, I didn't want to start with Rangers because they're not the story right now, but I feel like we do need to touch on it because yes, they are mathematically out of the running now. So um just a little bit on Rangers before we move on, is just what really got me was not even the the defeat to Heart um or the defeat to Mother Wall, it was the fact that in the second half against Celtic, they just they went out without a whimper. And it just felt like we've been kind of praising them for their comeback this season. Yes, we all know that the the the tr trials and tribulations at the start of the season, but what Danny Rowl did so well was he got them back uh on track again and uh very quietly just got the momentum building, and they kind of fell under the radar because of everything that was happening at Celtic and Hearts at the same time, and they just quite consistently pulled themselves back into the running again. And I at one point when the table was so close and so tight, I can add high hopes that it was going to be the three of them going down to the last day. But especially the the the second half against Hearts and the second half against Celtic, especially just felt like they just it exactly that they went they went out with a whimper, and it was quite disappointing that the three the three-way title race became to in that manner.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I think it's it's it's kind of emblematic of what's happened or what's gone wrong with Rangers this season. I genuinely, and I've not watched every game, but I've watched enough, and th they to me I think have been incapable of turning in one solid 90-minute performance. They seem to be a team that can only play in fits and starts, and I think there was something interesting actually that Chris Boyd said, which is rare, if I'm being honest, which was um they kind of tend to crumble as soon as one bad thing happens in a game. They they don't know how to respond to it. If things are going well, great, and they can play good football or whatever, but they they tend to fall away at the first kind of thing. And I think that's the thing. The on paper Rangers have incredible riches, um, a very expensively assembled squad. Almost every week, and even in matches they win, they're regularly being outfought, maybe not outplayed, but outfought, out-muscled, outorganised by teams with squads and players that on paper they should really be putting away fairly comfortably. And I think that speaks a lot to the mentality to have five cup finals, as the manager said, uh, and to lose three back to back is I mean, that's a crumbling of mentality, but they are out of it. Let's shelve that. Name your rangers chat, okay? We're only talking about the two-horse race, and that is Hearts and Celtic. It was uh uh obviously Celtic get the three points, they claw back a little bit. You've said, Laura, that you're expecting Motherwell to take points off all three of these teams going in. They've gone to Ibrox and won, they've taken two points off Hearts, potentially lucky to do so, but they did, they they fought really hard. Next up for for Motherwell is Celtic at Fur Park. Are you backing the Steelman to maybe do something interesting in this title race yet?

SPEAKER_02 21:51

I absolutely am. I'm sticking by this prediction. Uh I I and I'm enjoying it because they've been so good this season. and they're just they they're enjoying their own little story um as they thought yeah okay they were never really under the title race but they've just been so excellent they they deserve the European spot 100% but it's like they're just sort of going along in a parallel and going oh yeah you're having a title race hold on a minute hold my beer because I'm gonna have a stay here next and I'm gonna have a little bit of fun and it's been great because the football they're playing this season is exceptional and I think we're in the stage now where every team sees that sees a texture line ahead of them goes oh yeah okay that's not an easy place to go that's not an easy thing to take on it so different from previous years it's it's it's still unpredictable now um between the the the top six and again it's like it's another reason the top six is just all fantastic in general that alone this season um I've never been more confident that this is the year that Celtic could stumble against Model. It's it's typically such a difficult fixture. But if it's going to happen now is exactly the time um and I don't think anyone can really look at that fixture and go, yeah it's a foreground Celtic yes okay they've they've built up some momentum now it feels like they're really kind of they're getting it together going into the last couple of games but I don't think anyone can just go yeah yeah it's needy three points um I think anyone to who would assume that it would look like a fool got into it. I say that it's probably going to end up 4 nil now or something but I'm uh I'm very hopeful that Mother will will have a massive say in where this title goes yet again with the third fixture that they're going to come up against them.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

And it could be a fairly immediate impact because just looking at the permutations Hearts could actually be league champions as early as Wednesday this week by Wednesday night for that to happen they obviously need to beat Falkirk. They're at home to Falkirk and it's Motherwell that are hosting Celtic if Motherwell beat Celtic and Hearts win that's the only combination where Hearts will be crown champions midweek any other combination of results will mean it will go down to the last day and that game at Parkhead between the two of them.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

My brain I've been trying to work out all the permutations the different scenarios between these last two match days all day and my brain is just like oh it's so exciting.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Well just to delve slightly further into these actual permutations from a hearts point of view given that they could be upcoming champions we're just going to take a little break now and then we will be speaking to Anthony Brown Heart supporter journalist and author on his thoughts about what could be waiting ahead for a very historic week for the Jambos we're enjoying some of us every minute of this season from afar. But let's talk to someone who's right in the middle of it all right now journalist and author Anthony Brown is joining us to talk from a heart's point of view what we're going to be expecting for the final two weeks of the season and what it could mean.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Anthony thank you so much for joining us you um you must be loving this I was loving it up until the weekend um certainly it's it's been probably in terms of being a heart supporter as a kid and then working covering hats and what have you it's certainly been the best season I can remember in terms of league campaigns. I know they had the Cut win in 1998 and the cut win in 2012 and the special season in 2006 as well but I think this one feels like the most incredible just given that there literally two games potential or one game potentially from winning the title which I never ever thought in my lifetime I would ever see any club out with Rangers or Celtic win it. And obviously there's still a lot of work to do Celtic have just gone favourites but just the fact that we're even having this conversation with two games to go is pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

You've been covering hearts for a long long time tell us how different this season's been in terms of like the atmosphere the mood the feeling around the place that that buzz must have been there the whole what 36 games now yeah no it's it's definitely been out there on its own.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

I think in 1998 which was when I was a bit I was 15 16 back then the stadium never seemed as full it didn't quite seem as big a deal I know Harts sort of ran Rangers and Celtic fairly close but never ever felt like they were within touching distance of winning the title this has just been a different level altogether the fact of beating Rangers and Celtic several times I think it's five times I've beaten the the two of them combined beating Hibbs three times three of them were late winners and beyond that it's just been so many brilliant moments like moments that people remember for years and it's from my perspective my son's 14 now so I'm working at all the games home and away and I take him and his mate and just drop them off in the away end and I keep saying to him look just try and take this in as much as you can because there might never be another season like this I know people keep saying all the Tony Bloom stuff this is just the start and it may well be but we don't know that for certain it could all go back to sort of normality next year Harts might be just battling with Aberdeen and Hibbs for third place so it is like the the away ends sold out every game every single game it's a scramble for tickets the home games as well now there's a real atmosphere around Tynecastle which hasn't always been the case Tynecastle's got this reputation of being like a bit of a bear pit but I think most people who go regularly would say actually it can be a wee bit of a morgue at times in normal circumstances but certainly in the second half of this season in particular it's just gone another level and I think that sort of played out in the Rangers game last week that was in terms of atmosphere just crackling from a good bit before kickoff the teams coming out the second half was just unbelievable like I've never felt Tinecastle like that in all my time ago and since 1990 it really was different level I think a lot of people have said that that were there that they've they can't remember a night like that. There's dozens of highlights throughout this season and it's one of those seasons that if you asked every Hearts fan to pick their five favourite games I think everybody would come up with different games. Nobody would have the same games there's just been so many different not just the Rangers Celtic and Hibbs games like one for me that sticks out was Dundee United away in January when they went up 130. I think there's about 5,000 Hearts fans up there. There'd been snow during the day in Dundee wind and rain and it was widely expected to be a really difficult night for Hearts and they absolutely blitzed Dundee United and it that was the night the sort of Champions League is awaits for me song started and it's just continued right through from then on. I mean it there's just so many bits that I think when you look back the problem you're going to have is that if it does end on a downer that will sort of override everything if it goes I mean it if they lose it it is going to be literally losing it on the last day against Celtic and I think that'll really tarnish it for a lot of people if that's the way it plays out which is a real shame because no matter how it ends it should be remembered as one of Hart's greatest seasons of certainly of the modern era.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Just to kind of dig down into it a little bit can you as a journalist put your finger on exactly what it is that has meant Hearts are in this position is it the fact that the Rangers and Celtic have been by their own standards pretty well certainly by Celtic standards quite poor this season and and maybe have dropped off quite a bit that that's coincided with Hearts you know having the right manager in place having that blend of new players coming in but also established players that have been there for a while is it the Tony Bloom influence and the analytics is it kind of a combination of all that or are there specific things that you can point to to be like that's maybe a reason why there has been this standout season for Hearts I think all the things you allude to there are certainly valid.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Maybe not so much Rangers because Rangers points tally is going to be roughly along similar lines to most of the last five to ten years. I don't think Rangers are going to be a million miles off what they usually finish on beyond that season where they won the league in 2021. So but certainly obviously Celtic have dropped off a little bit but then you factor in that Harts have taken eight points or something off of Celtic so that accounts for some of it the fact that Harts have got themselves to a level where they can do that. I mean there's no argument that Celtic are not the same team they were last year or several previous years but that I mean the team that Celtic are putting out now is now starting to look like a semi-familiar Celtic title winning team. I know it's not quite at the same level as last year's but they look like they've they're getting a wee bit closer to that kind of level that you expect of a Celtic title winning team but I mean the hearts points tally at the moment 77 that's a record points tally so for all that Celtic may have dropped away hearts are there on the basis of their own points tally being the best it's ever been and I think if they win against Falkirk I think that'll get them on to 80 points which I'm not sure any team out the Rangers or Celtic have ever hit. Maybe McKinnas's Aberdeen team did it 10 years ago and that would have been at a time when Rangers weren't in the league so slightly easier to hit not easy but you know what I mean there's it's a little bit more favourable in terms of hitting that points tally so I mean hearts are certainly there on merit in terms of winning winning winning and if they do suffer a setback they generally win the next game so that they've found that consistency I mean they're they're not the most swashbuckling team by any stretch. I think they had a period probably September October last year where they played well a bit of verve when Kizaridis was flying and Braga was just a little bit unplayable for a few games Shankland was on fire and they just had a real steeliness about them defensively and they just looked like a real strong unit whereas now they're probably grinding games a little bit more now since we've gotten to the second half of the season they're really getting hit hard by injuries at the minute but they still keep chipping away and that's still a good point in my opinion at Motherwell it's just unfortunate that on the back of it they've lost two really key players which has put a real damner on it and Celtic have then gone and black rangers today which I think has sucked the life out of a few supporters in terms of their belief that Hartz can get over the line but no I think all the things you allude to in terms of reasons certainly Derek McInnes is a huge factor. He's played a blinder in terms of just setting the right tone the way he speaks the way he he's been really calm actually I've been surprised how calm he's he's not like lashed out at people the way I maybe thought he might have when the pressure was on and things like that. He's just he's been a really good figurehead and I think if you asked any heart supporter they would have certain grumbles about certain team selections and potentially playing with a handbrake on a little bit at times or that's the perception but you can't really argue with what he's done over the piece and when he doesn't quite get it right to start with he usually fixes it at halftime or whatever and gets a response in the second half which certainly has in in recent weeks so and obviously you've got the Jamestown aspect of it which has brought Braga Kiziridis they're the two sort of poster boys I guess for it and even beyond that the likes of Magnuson and Kabori Harry Milne was a Jamestown boy Kajotta they've all had bits of influence in this in terms of having uh coming up the big moments so and then you've got your guys at Kingsley Halkitt Shankland Devlin Bene who were there before so it is it's a it's sort of perfect storm everything coming together and as you say probably capitalising a little bit on Celtic not being quite at their level do you get a sense of like I mean I I'm seeing it just by talking to people but outside of Celtic Rangers and Hibs fans do you really kind of get that sense that everyone else in Scotland and beyond is back in hearts? Yeah I think they probably are just the the novelty of it and certainly people's like I was down in Leeds a few weeks ago and Leeds fans were just wanting to talk about it like they're asking is this real is it like has it got a chance of happening it's pretty everybody's talking about everywhere you go people who aren't even like family members I've got that pay no interest to hearts usually are now following it closely and it feels like something beyond football almost it's almost like you say it last week they were asking everybody politicians and what have you that probably don't really know about it but they were still wanting to have their say because they know it's a big thing. Does everybody want them hearts to win it I think the vast majority of people out with those clubs you mentioned and I actually think a lot of Hibs fans probably deep down wouldn't mind hearts winning it and I understand that probably we would be quite comfortable with it on the basis that they've probably got mates who are hearts fans and they wouldn't necessarily begrudge them it if they got over the line but yeah I think I think you'd be a bit of a if it was Aberdeen up there or if it was Dun United motherwell whatever I'd want them to get over the line I I think it's what Scottish football needs somebody to crack this duopoly I don't think it's healthy for just Rangers and Celtic to continue winning it every year.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

If you got I mean it's it it's it's hard not to and and many broadcast outlets have kind of made the comparison obviously hearts did come relatively close you know a gener two generations ago in uh in the mid 80s to to winning a league title and it kind of went south on the last day or close to the last day is is that playing on the mind of of Hearts fans uh going into it or or or is that like you're saying there's maybe a bit of a wobble that happened over the course of the results this weekend but in your opinion have you kind of felt that there's enough of a consensus among the fans that now we actually will do it or is that kind of nervousness creeping in the closer you get to the finish line?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Well from my perspective I'm just too young to remember 86. I never started going until 1990 so 86 hasn't really affected my mindset obviously I'm aware of it and my dad was there and things like that but it really hasn't factored into my thinking which is probably why I've thought probably from October that hearts are genuine contenders and I've never really I didn't necessarily think they were going to win the league but once they beat Celtic 3-1 Brendan Rogers last game I thought hearts have got a chance here like depending how it plays out depending on how Rangers and Celtic respond and I mean I never saw Rangers as title contenders back in October I thought they were dead like done like in terms of the race um so I thought if Celtic continue to wobble don't get this next appointment right hearts could kick on here but now that it's got close I've still always thought hearts have got a chance on the basis that they've always had a lead between Harps Rangers and Celtic I don't think there's much difference. I think if they all played each other three times on neutral venues they'd probably all come out with similar points if that makes sense but I think because hearts have always had that little points buffer I always favoured them I always thought if they can just keep that buffer all three teams will slip up they're all finding the tension of this title race pretty difficult in terms of keeping that consistency and I just thought if hearts can just keep chipping away and I didn't expect them to bottle it and I don't think they will bottle it as such if they don't win it I don't think it'll be anything to do with bottle I've always thought they needed to win it before the last day that's always been in my thought and when the split fixtures came up I actually thought it was a good thing that they were going to Celtic Park on the last day because I thought you don't want to go to Celtic first game after the split potentially lose that game and it kills your momentum I thought you're better trying to win it before you actually have to go to Celtic Park and that could still play out on Wednesday if Motherwell beat Celtic and hearts beat Falkirk not beyond the realms of possibility but I think the way the weekend's results have played out has really started to sap the belief of a lot of supporters and it now looks a little bit ominous. It looks like Celtic have got a bit of momentum and when you see Celtic Park the way it was after they beat Rangers I think there's a lot of Harts fans thinking if they can do that to Rangers they can probably do that to us. I think there is a bit of a fear developing that if Harts have to go to Celtic Park and only avoid defeat it's going to be so hard because there's going to be 900 Harts fans there and 6000 Celtic fans willing the ball into the net and I think this is a different Harts team to most previous Harts teams and but I think Harts fans are just scarred from going to Glasgow so many times and taking beat-ins that it's hard to go there confident that they will win even though they won on their last visit to go to Celtic Park to try and close out a draw for the league title I just I don't know if Harts would be capable of doing that with as I say the the home support just willing Celtic over the line I was actually saying in some ways I know this sounds ridiculous it may actually be better for Harts if they somehow get overtaken on Wednesday if they're not going to win it on Wednesday get overtaken on Wednesday so they have to win on the last day and they almost go in with a little bit of pressure relief because no one it won't be like losing it on the last day. They can go there and try and win it on the last day.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Anthony you're letting this get into your head too much come on you're smiling here we can see you unraveling here like I've said from the start of the split I am confident motherboard taking points off all three of you so that's I'm going into Wednesday night and I am absolutely confident that Motherboard's still going to have a say in this title race yet.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

So do not spile just yet I think that's what everybody's praying for at the minute from a hearts perspective that they can I think hearts fans are quite confident that they'll beat Falker because obviously not a gimme because Falker are a good side but yeah I think the way the hearts have been at home and hearts hearts are in good form at the moment I know they drew on there's a bit of negativity because they drew on Saturday night but they've not they've I think they're unbeaten in six they've won four drawn two they're picking up results it's not like they've lost their way big time like they had that blip at Colmarnik in March and they've responded really well to that so they are still in good form they're winning all their home games they're perfectly capable of going out and beating Falkirk even with the pressure on can Motherwell beat Celtic 100% they can if Motherwell turn up and play to their full potential I mean we saw it in little flashes against Hearts I don't think Mother will were at their brilliant best against Hearts but there were still moments where you thought you can see their quality here and Celtic might start to feel the pressure now that they're right up there and people are expecting Celtic to go and win it I wouldn't want to have to go and win at Motherwell to win a title or to keep your hopes alive. Like Harts had that last night and they came away with a point which I actually thought was a good result so I wouldn't like to have to go there to win so I think that's the the one thing that Hearts will be kind of relying on is can Motherwell do them a favour and take away this sort of horrible prospect having to go to Celtic to avoid defeat for a title.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Well there have been um obviously some iconic moments involving Fur Park Motherwell and helicopters with league titles in it so you never know Anthony the the gods might and the the odds might still be in your favour uh come midweek I mean it would be exceptional to see something like that happen in Scottish football. I think we're going to wrap it up there but thank you so much for joining us and all the best for midweek we hope you're celebrating with many pints by this time on uh Wednesday night I've said it time and time again for a joby team we broke some good records. Huge thanks there to Anthony for joining us. I think you can kind of tell even as a journalist the nervousness that's there as a supporter the more he was Anthony started that chat in full professional mode he was full journalist and ended it completely paranoid worried supporter who was trying to talk himself out of jumping off the bridge at the end of the night it's gotta be okay Anthony you're okay come on title races are not fun when you're a supporter of a team that's right in the midst of it and that kind of nihilism that's there as a football fan is just it's it's ingrained it's hard to get away from so yeah I know that feeling sadly and not experiencing it this season but anyway um just sticking with the the the kind of conclusion or the the the top half the top six the title run in first of all sky calling it SPFL final day I mean I'm surprised they didn't put the Dundee United badge up at the same time I I don't understand how after all this time we're still having people calling it the SPFL. The SPFL are four leagues it's the premiership the premiership is that individually oh I just I don't why why are we educating them it's never going to change um and then just looking because there's there's one interesting thing so the uh Rangers will finish third uh mathematically can't go any higher or lower thank goodness they can't go any lower but it kind of there's still permutations for where the clubs will finish and what that means for European qualification and even the Scottish Cup can have an impact on where certain teams will be playing can you take us through very quickly the permutations of what can happen now with European places?

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah without this oh that hurts my brain um putting it into words um yeah so essentially Celtic uh hearts and Celtic have clung to two Champions League spots that are not for grabs whoever wins a league will go into the playoffs which means that it's one round to get into the competition and the team that comes second will go into the second qualifying round which means three rounds of qualifiers games in total essentially um whoever comes second is not making the Champions League let's be honest it's a very difficult round of pictures to kind of to overcome but the the curveball here is if they'll take win the Scottish Cup then that is actually good for Rangers because right now Rangers are in a conference league position. They will go into the second qualifying route of the Conference League but if they'll take when the Scottish Cup it promotes Rangers up to essentially the next I'm so bad at explaining this Gav, who was on this a couple weeks back about the Scottish coefficient, he was so much better explaining it than me. So go and listen to that episode.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

But essentially if Celtic win the Scottish Cup it is good for Rangers because they will move up to the Europa League qualifiers instead of the Conference League qualifiers which is what they are currently setting in as they are now securing third place in the league wow so Rangers fans hoping that Celtic win the Scottish Cup on the last game of the season is uh

SPEAKER_02 44:00

It's a small silver lane for you guys.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah. No, do you know what? Do you know what? Screw it. I want Hearts to win the league, Denfamon to win the cup, and Rangers just to go bang straight into the Europa League qualifiers. Great banter, fun all round for everybody. Good for Scottish football. Let's embrace it. Let's move on, Laura. Just looking at the bottom six, then. So all of all of the top half of the table's playing on Wednesday. The day before, on Tuesday, we've kind of got the penultimate round of fixtures in the bottom half. Huge result at the weekend in terms of that relegation drop zone place because it wasn't just a win for Kelly, they absolutely battered St. Mirren. 3-0, just referencing back to the World Cup squad. Finley Curtis, he's staking some claim to be on that plane, by the way. He's been exceptional for Kilmarnock. I kind of wish he hadn't left Rangers at this point. But um it's uh I I we kind of made mention maybe last week on the show, Killey are the ones that look like they're coming into form right at the right time. And my goodness, they absolutely exemplified that at the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Yeah, Athrena will Athrino win over St. Miren. Um, I mean it it just kind of all went wrong from the ninth minute when Freckleton scored no goal, and there was just no coming back for St. Miren after that. The as you're saying, it it really does give the sense that Neil McCann's is it's all clicking from right now at Kilmarnock, right at the time that it matters most. Um, which is to be fair, the exact reason he came in. Um so that it's a very very clever appointment in that sense. But yeah, you're looking at now St. Minner of 30 points with two games left to play. Kelly are four ahead just now. Um so yeah, our result for Kelly on Wednesday on Tuesday now will secure, will seal St. Minnen's feet um in 11th place, which means they will then probably the winner of the film up party in the playoffs um in a couple weeks or two's time. But yeah, like Dundee are safe now, Kelly like very likely that they've they've got themselves over the line. But St. Minnen, it's been a hell of a fall from Grace from the the highs of September winning the League Cup to um uh uh really just tumbling down that hill ever since. They've never really got back on it, have they?

SPEAKER_01 46:24

No, and I I think we've been looking at the um the travails of Ross County in uh in recent weeks, but um there's the danger there. I mean St. Marin are a far more established top flight club than than even Ross County were, and they were there for a long time. Could be disastrous if they go down. And it won't be easy because looking at the teams that are in the the Prem playoff, uh Dunfermman just about overcame our browse to get through a fairly stodgy set of games. They won 1-0 in aggregate over the two games after 0-0 in the second leg. They're playing Thistle, um, and that's also on Tuesday night, the first leg of that. Scottish Cup finalists against a team that are unbeaten at home in the league all season. It's it's uh that's gonna be an interesting tie in and of itself. But whoever whoever ends up playing potentially at this moment, it looks like St. Mirin, that's gonna be a tasty little game as well. We've also got it's happening, Laura, a match that we um alluded to that could be happening, the League One semi-final, Clyde versus Hamilton, where you have peak Scottish football. Clyde, who used to play at Broadwood, will now be visiting Broadwood as the away team to play Hamilton, and in the reverse fixture, we'll have Hamilton visiting whatever on earth that stadium's called this week in Hamilton.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

It's always gonna be New Douglas Park.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Always yeah, it is New Douglas Park, but whatever it's got, it seems to change every five minutes. Was it not the it was the wacky backy stadium for one season, wasn't it? And the fountain of youth stadium and all sorts of other nonsense. But they'll be going to their old home as the away team to play Clydes who now play there. Amazing symmetry.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Such a Scottish football story. Sometimes I really just want to like sit and tell people that I work with these daft things just to see their face and go, What? What do you deal with? This is like something out of Stranger Things, and we're playing the upside down right now.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

It's just I love it. Exactly what it is. Um, and then amazingly, so those those both of those games, the the Clyde Hamilton and the Dan Ferman Thistle games, are on Tuesday. The second legs are right around the corner, same week, Friday night, Friday night football, second legs of playoff finals. It's all going on, and this could be with Hearts as champions at the same time. Incredible stuff. Don't turn off for a second because Scottish football is just box office from start to finish.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Honestly, the next 10 days is just it's a round. I think there's like almost any every night we're talking for the next week and a bit. It's so exciting.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

It's absolutely incredible stuff. I think we're gonna wrap it up there, Laura. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Massive thanks to Anthony Brown as well. And uh Andrew, wherever you are in the universe, what's be doing.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Please, please come back if you if you're listening. We love you.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Please come home until our next episode. Have a wonderful week wherever you are. Now go and listen to something else.