Bye Bye Steve Clarke: The Therapy Session

Scotland are out, Steve Clarke is gone and it's the last episode of the season.

Andrew Slaven, Laura Brannan and Findlay Marks are in need of a therapy session.

Join them for the World Cup debrief, looking ahead to who should be the new manager and whether the reaction from the fans was justified. 

It's time for some closure.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Scottish Football Show. Here's what's coming up, or here's who's leaving. Steve Clark. He's fucked off. Scotland are at the World Cup. We don't know who's gonna be in the Euros. And yeah, the world's ending. So let's do a podcast! I don't know how you guys are feeling, but I am downbeat. More downbeat than the two Euros performances slammed together. I feel like I've been kicked in the balls and I'm still having to work throughout the World Cup. I'm going out there in two weeks. I'm gonna take my kill, but I'm puffed out. How are you guys? Laura Brann and Finley Marks. Cheer me the F up, please, Laura. Is that possible after the week we've just had? Oh Finn, you're you're trying now. Make me smile.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Um Democratic Republic of Congo almost knocked England out.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Almost.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Almost. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Honestly, last week it was the hottest week of the year, Finn. You might be more acclimatized now to warm weathers now that you're in Australia. But for us, if it's above 30, I mean for me, it's if it's above 20. But it was the hottest week of the year. My brain melted, our dreams melted, everything just went to shit on the same week. Um it was horrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

You know it's gonna be a big, big, a good podcast when you start talking about the weather. Jeez oh, at least it should only be half an hour, eh?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I I I'm just more upset that all of that wasn't staved off by the uh the alien invasion that we were promised. Remember, when was when's that happening? That was supposed to be during our match, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I know I was looking forward to um like Lewis Ferguson just nutting some alien square between the massive eyes.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I would have taken just a bolt of lightning to call the game off. I mean, it didn't have to be dramatic or anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, screw your hydration breaks. I want an alien break that would have been class. Delay the match 24 hours, reset.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Do you reckon some sort of extraterrestrial life force would get more out the Scotland squad than Steve Clark did? Should we get onto all that? No.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I feel like they snatched the whole defence anyway and they went missing, so maybe there was one and we just never actually saw it.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

They'd probably end up playing for bloody England, let's be honest. They choose their allegiance elsewhere, turncoats. Any roads. Um Steve Clark has left the building. What are we saying to it? I'm kind of like, I'm a bit pissed off. Do you know why I'm pissed off? Why? Because he came out and said that he'd made his mind up if he hadn't if he hadn't got the team through into the knockout stages, he was always going to leave. And he signs his four-year contract because he wanted to give the players some odd of comfort. Like, does that does that stick for you, Laura?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

No, it it doesn't. It was a very strange god, I don't even know where to begin with this. I'm not angry like you are.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Um I'm not just disappointed.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Um yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

You've gone full maw again.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

That's exactly how I feel right now. Start an army's mall, Laura Brannon. I'm no angry, I'm just disappointed, son.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Um, the whole statement thing is very strange. Um right from the very start, from from if we strip it all the way back to the the silence after the Brazil game, or across across social, across any sort of comms from the national team. There was nothing, absolute silence, uh, which I think a lot of Scottish clubs do out of fear for backlash in comments. It's a silly mentality. Uh, just don't meet them. Fans are angry, yes, and they're gonna take their emotions out, but it doesn't matter. You still need to say something, you still need to take control of the narrative. They did not do that at all. They hid. There was nothing until they posted a bunch of arty photos like three days later or something. Don't need to see them. Nope, read the room out. You can post, but don't post the wrong thing. Um, then after all that, they released a really badly written statement with a poorly executed uh headline, a poorly timed joke in England, overly gushy to the staff. Yeah, no mention of the fans, yeah, and absolutely no mention of why he was actually leaving. The overall tone was wrong. It was an obituary more than an actual factual reason that something was happening. So that was all very strange. Um, and then it followed up with a YouTube video of his final interview, which again was strangely reflective. It was really strange because what should have happened was factual, he's leaving and why, then debriefing the campaign, and then being reflective and sentimental on his time in charge. But what it felt like had happened was he'd made his mind up clearly before, which has now emerged, he'd made his mind up weeks before. But the staff inside the hotel knew after the Brazil game, had four days to digest this, and we were seeing the results of their narrative, how they were digesting and what stage they were at in their grief almost. They had moved on four days, whereas the fans hadn't. The fans were just angry, and in typical Scottish fashion, we found a new way to torture ourselves. We didn't just go out, we went out after four days worth of results going against us. So then we didn't have the same time to process it the same way the staff inside the building did. We needed to be told factually what was happening, take all that and and then be sentimental about it, and then to find out 24 hours later he was always going to go anyway.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

It's just like do you know? I think it's it's also quite cruel on the players in the sense of well, you didn't get us to the the knockout stages, so I'm leaving. And I think all of the comms and and even some of the the video that you've seen of him, like like the interview, like let's do it one last time. Like I think, I think look, I don't know Steve Clark, and and the people that do um are always very complimentary. And who are we really to to talk about Steve Clark in any way? He's done a fantastic job for Scotland, he will always be membered for that. But I don't think I'll forget the sour taste that this has put in my mouth with the whole situation, because it does sometimes feel like he doesn't he doesn't care about coming across as a fan, even though I know he's a fan, but it's almost like it's like the David Cameron like resignation after Brexit. It's just like when he's been caught on microphone and he just goes, Right, that's it then. What do we do now? Like just doesn't it's not like he just didn't care. He was like, right, well, I've done my bit, so you can love me or hate me. I don't care, and he doesn't need to care, but I want him to care. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I want you to love me.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

I want to be loved by Steve Clark so much, and um and I should be more grateful. Scotland fans probably should be more grateful. It's just too raw, and there's been too much, there's the expectation is what kills you.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I think you're in a very similar boat to the majority of fans, Andrew. Um, I think everyone is hurting right now, everyone's emotional, everyone goes a little bit emo after bad results, and they take it out on any scapegoat they can find. And Steve Clark's a very easy one to aim for in this case. Thanks, mum. No one's really processing it until probably this stage, like a week on, people are starting to, you know, they're back home, they're they're over the jet lag, their alcohol's out of the system, they're starting, they're you know, the post-holiday blues have kicked in, and I think now watching other games and seeing other small teams doing well, like sort of Norway progressing, Congo doing well, Sweden going through to the knockouts, and you're looking at them going, they're no better than us. And it it kind of just that that for me is where the sadness kind of comes in, and they regret that a lot will probably still be angry at that, but to me, it's just a bit like this is actually quite sad that we're watching this Ecuador celebrating their last minute winner against Germany. That was a sickener. That could so easily have been us in that situation, and I'm just a bit jealous of them all, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, Finn Finn, how do you how do you break it all down?

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I was a bit flabbergasted reading the the statement. It's quite clearly not written by Clark. Steve Clark doesn't talk like that. I I think I mean he probably stormed off after they asked him to write one, but um I it's written by the staff, it'll have had his approval to go out and stuff like that. But the whole thing, I was incredulous towards the tone of it. I think the tone that you mentioned, Laura, is exactly the right thing to to flag because from the headline bye-bye Scotland, like that's that was in itself what initially it was bye-bye rangers, bye bye Celtic, wasn't it? It was like a whole kind of like f off to the old firm in the it wasn't bye-bye Kelly, that's the thing. No, exactly. It wasn't it wasn't an endearing thing, it was something to take the piss out of the the ugly sisters of Scottish football, right? That that was the whole point. So I was like, well, that it's it's so it doesn't make sense to even start a statement that way. And then you're right, Laura. I think like the fact that you know there was the line about what was it, the nil-nil win against England. That's a nin joke amongst the Tartan army. Like Scotland fans take the piss out that for that to be in I know what they were trying to do, but for that to be in an official piece of comms about the manager leaving, it it just it doesn't land in any way. It just makes us look weirdly. I think it underlines the whole amateur parochial mentality that has festered not just this World Cup campaign, but all three tournaments that Steve Clark's taken us to, and a lot of the attitude I think the SFA has to our national game as well, which is this kind of entrenched jobs for the boys, if it's not broken, don't fix it. We're above reproach, you none of you understand what we're trying to do here, kind of old men's club. And I I think you're absolutely right, Laura. I I've felt it's it's been what four five or six days or whatever since since the nice mic came out. I'm still absolutely fizzing at it, and I and it's it's difficult because as you're saying, you don't know where to direct your anger. I think there's just like a kind of overall it's shite being Scottish feeling, isn't it? Like that's ultimately what it is. Because I don't think anybody can really hold their head up after this World Cup, other than the fans. Agreed. Um I I think there's blame in all quarters. I think the players stunk out the place on the park. Really, I mean, we were sending messages back and forth. I I was trying like, does anybody really come out of it with an enhanced reputation? Maybe Lewis Ferguson. I I thought he was probably our standout player in terms of work create and what he did on the park, but again, he wasn't setting the heather alight.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

It was almost like not standout player, but he just did his job. He he did what was asked for him.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah, both both Lewis Ferguson and Scott McTominay, after the group stages, had covered the most ground than any other player, they were top two, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

But it's uh and and those stats alone, that's fine. But they also, you're not really expecting Ferguson to create too much. Like he covers a lot of ground, he breaks stuff up. That's what he did. McTominay was poor, and you need to blame the players because I don't think any of them rose to the occasion. Any of these players that are Premier League captains, title winners, European trophy winners, um, hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of games of experience, international caps, almost to a man, they all froze when it really mattered. But I think also you have to apportion some, if not a lot, of the blame at Steve Clark's door and the coaching team because they didn't look ready for any of those games, which is something I would say has been a theme of not just this tournament but all three tournaments Clark's qualified us for. And I think maybe this is the time to get into it. I I don't want to do the monstrous revisionism that a lot of fans tend to do, which is the discourse that you see online, not just about this, but almost anything, which is like, well, he's gone, well, he was always shite anyway, wasn't he? That's not true, but neither is he's got to be remembered as the greatest Scotland manager of all time. He's not. In terms of qualifications to tournaments, he is, but in terms of his ability to coach a squad, I still think he's ultimately kind of not failed, that's harsh. He wasn't able to take us to a level to compete properly, I think, in modern tournaments, which is really what we should have been angling for across the course of three tournaments. I I think we look devoid of a plan in a lot of games, and sometimes the selections and stuff have been baffling again, not just at this tournament in previous occasions. I think thinking back to the World Cup, we didn't qualify for in Qatar, the Ukraine game still sticks out in my mind as being like it was totally reactionary. He got the lineup wrong, the tactics wrong. He took ages to try and sort things, and that's that's the rule, not the exception. We can think back to as well, and I think it's right to do this too. We can think back to incredible highs that Steve Clark's given us, and he even called for this, didn't he, in that that kind of slightly bizarre sit-down lunch thing in in America before they came home at the team hotel, where he was like, I want people to remember the highs more than the lows, and it's like some of those nights like the Spain game, the Denmark game, I think is an old timer for for us as Scotland fans. But there's there's other big ones in there too. I think I I was lucky enough in in between leaving London and moving out to Australia. I did have like eight months uh living in Scotland, which was great. And I got to go to like the Israel game, that 3-2 game, or the Den the first Denmark game where we beat them 2-0, they'd already qualified. But like that was one of the most complete Scotland performances I think I've ever seen. We had some great moments, and he did get his playing well, and he did get his two tournaments, but ultimately it took a long time to get to that point. And then, if you're being honest, for the last 18 months, almost two years, really since the Spain game, we've been poor, we've been relying on moments, not performances, to get through games, ground out results, and uh I think it all caught up with us once we got to the World Cup. Once you get to that higher level of tactical awareness, of ability of player, of teams just going for it, we absolutely fell short.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

And I think a lot of that's I still refer back to like that that like Tom and a go in Spain. I just feel like when that was ruled out, it took the stuffing out of the and it just never really returned, did it? The Denmark game was a kind of a kind of blit almost on that radar. The thing with you're you're naming all the good ones, and there's many bad ones on there as well. But the thing is, the thing with Steve Clark is the highs were highs and the lows were fucking awful lows. You got extreme emotions, and for me that's just part of being a football fan, and I'm not gonna knock it too much because there's always gonna be like mountains to climb and peaks and drops and all sorts of whatever you want to call it, but it to me it's just really frustrating that he had unfinished business, he didn't achieve what he wanted to achieve this time round, and it felt like we were on course to actually do it. It felt like the the everything was right. Yeah, the the the the mentality seemed right. The the squad seemed laid back and confident and comfortable in their surroundings going into this tournament. It felt like something was about special is going to happen. He's left this and it should have made him hungrier to succeed. He went into it saying he was building for the future now, he was starting to look at the the the players that were going to come in and take over this squad, the likes of like Ben Garandok, who's gonna be the spine of the new team. He's brought in Tyler Fletcher, it's gone to the future. He talked about that, about taking on a new contract to build for that, and he should have been looking at your 2028 as being not only the final bow for most of the squad, but him as well. And it just feels like now he's left prematurely, and I really don't want some of the older boys in the squad to now start to retire from international football because they feel like it's the end of an era as well, because it shouldn't be. We should still have one more tournament to go with this team.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, we should, and that's the thing. We need to look ahead now, and we need to think of you know, whoever the next manager is, it will it's actually a harder job than Steve Clark would have had when he first came in because it is that level of expectation of we we should be in a situation where we should we should be expecting to qualify now, regardless of how much the squad needs to turn over. Um there are a lot the majority of this team will not be in the world the next World Cup if if we're lucky to qualify. It's gonna be a brand new squad almost. Maybe Lewis Ferguson, maybe Mick Tomedy.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Billy Gilmore.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

But and Billy Gilmore, Lennon Miller. There's a there's some players that are coming through, but there ain't a whole host of them. So whoever the next manager is, it's gonna be about bringing the current players back together again. And who do you think this next manager is? We've heard Alexa Vangepostacoglu um potentially being spoken about who knows international management. Well, I've heard Stephen Naismith is in for a shout. Oh god, which would be absolute cinch level SFA appointment. Um, it sounds just about right for me. Um, and Stephen Naismith's.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

If I'm being wrong, I wouldn't hold your breath for any kind of exciting or adventurous appointment. There was the again quite bizarre heels dug-in off-the-cuff interview that Ian Maxwell did where he was talking about media and fan hysteria and all that kind of stuff, that alluding as if that had been the reason that had forced Clark out as well. And he's obviously the man that saw fit to give Steve Clark a four-year contract the week before the tournament started. I I I think it'll be a deeply happy to be proved wrong. I want to caveat it by that. I think it'll be a deeply uninspiring appointment. I think his short list will be exactly what you'd expect it to be, and that you'll read in the Daily Mail and the Sun Sport columns. It'll be all their mates, it'll be older guys, it might be someone from within like Stephen Naismith, who would be completely wrong, I think, uh at this time and at that level. Because I I've been trying, like I'm I'm obviously talking about this not just with Scottish football fans. I'm around a lot of like Aussie mates and stuff who are also trying to figure out how we're not good at tournaments when you've got teams like Australia regularly progressing to the knockout stages of the World Cup, regularly qualifying for the World Cup, have done so the last six times in a row. I would say this tournament probably have, I don't want to say the most average squad, but in terms of like the level of player that they've had previously at World Cups, Kew, Vaduca, Bresciano, Cahill, like all of these players, Schwarzer, they don't have players at that level now, and they're still getting out of group stages, they're still going far enough. They're asking me, like, what is it? And I'm like, I I think there needs to be a bit of culture and mentality change. I think one thing that we do have to praise Steve Clark for is he brought us back to what I feel our base level is, which is qualifying for tournaments. You can also drum down into that and be like, it's maybe potentially never been easier to qualify for tournaments. Most of them are expanded. There's also additional back doors to these tournaments to get in. So it's maybe never been easier to get in, and like it would be mad if we're not. And it's never been easier to qualify for the knockout rounds. I I again, I I mean, I saw something this week where people are like, oh, you know, even if we beaten Haiti at 8-0, it still wouldn't have been enough. I I think that's that's almost a moot point as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

That's kind of true, though.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, no, I was gonna say, well, it's well, we would have been alright. I think there's something a bit more serious at a mentality level that supersedes that. My biggest takeaway was, and the weird thing is, after ever all three Scotland games, obviously it came after the Brazil one, but after all three Scotland games, I came away with a feeling of disappointment. And I think that feeling of disappointment comes from knowing we didn't give everything, like we we didn't perform to our the levels we know that these players are capable of. We've tried to distill as that tactical things, that mentality things, that whatever. Ultimately, and this is something that Scottish teams pride themselves on. Like, we might not be the best, but you work your bollocks off, you give everything, leave it all out there on the pitch. And I don't think in any of those three games we can say that we did that, and I think that's that's the hardest thing for me as a Scotland fan to take. Because if we go out there and we'd pumped Haiti 5-0 and we'd gotten a draw against Morocco, and yeah, we'd lost to Brazil, but maybe by a couple of goals, fine. I'm still like I can handle us going out if we gave everything and we still weren't good enough. 100%. To me, the worst thing is knowing like people being like, well, it doesn't matter because we didn't beat Haiti 8 0 anyway. It doesn't matter. Like, that's a re that's an irrelevance to me what happened actually in the other games, because we didn't do anything close to what we were capable of across those three games. And I would say across the nine tournament games we've played under Clark, I think.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Given a really poor account of ourselves and off the No you don't you don't take Brazil out of it, Laura, because the fact the fact of the matter is you make the it may be individual errors here that has cascaded along, of course, but at the at the at the end of the day, when you've only had maybe one shot on target, well, two shots on target, was that was the Haiti goal even on target? It was good, wasn't it? It's just you know the the last three tournaments we've been in, it's been after two flat.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Before the tournament, if we'd went in and said we're gonna get a 1-0 in over Haiti, we're gonna get battered by Brazil, but we're gonna go through because we scored a last-minute equalizer against Morocco, we'd have absolutely lapped it up, regardless of how bad we were against Brazil. So I was like, I I just don't think you can analyse it the same way because we always knew it was gonna happen against Brazil. It was gone by that point. It was gone when the full whistle full-time whistle went against Morocco.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

I would say, guys, that the Haiti performance and the subsequent performances, it felt very much like, yeah, this was coming. This was this was I can I can understand it. I can totally see why we've not performed because people haven't stepped up. Some people, I'm not, I don't think all of them. I think that a lot of them have probably worked their balls off, but it's just it's 11 people that have got to do it all together.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

I think I actually said it after the Haiti game that I thought, fine, I'm excusing a 1-0 win because it felt like it gave the boys the confidence and it it got the monkey off their back. And I thought they've now had this big release of seven tournament games in, we finally get a win, they're gonna push on now. And I was willing to excuse the kind of the the closeness of the result if we pushed on against uh Morocco. But do you do you feel that just scared little boys again?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Just to go back to your point, Laura. Do you feel that Morocco in the match that we played them were significantly better than us as a football team? And they drew with Brazil. So the point about us not being able to compete with Brazil again speaks to me about a Scottish mentality, which is just oh god, it's Brazil. Oh, please don't hat us, please don't batter us. And and just I can I can't stand that because you look at the teams at this World Cup, far smaller countries, far fewer resources. Players that would they couldn't even dream of getting one of their squad on a Ballon d'Or nominee list, and they're outperforming us because they had the goal, because they weren't hemmed in by a cultural mentality which is just oh we can't mess this up, we can't mess this up, we can't mess this up. Oh no, we messed it up. Like that was what underpinned everything from manager all the way down to the backup goalkeepers. Do you know what I mean? It's just I I I think there's there are massive cultural changes that need addressed. I don't think they will be, and I again I hope I'm proved wrong. I think this might be a cycle we're kind of doomed to repeat.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

That's that's the nah, we'll get we'll get over it. Nah, we'll we'll get over it.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Depths of the SFA though, that the changes need to be made, and which won't happen. It's Turkey's vote in particular. And that is why I fully expect someone like Stephen Naismith, Scott Gemow, someone in the bricks is gonna get the job and it is gonna be so depressing and soul destroying. Uh, but it's going to be so predictable because they gave it to their friends.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

I mean, Laura, uh one one small quick mention as well about I I knew we were I've had a feeling of doom when I was watching the BBC coverage, and Ailey Barber and Neil McCann brought up in the the last question from Ailey Barber, who's a really good reporter and presenter, just saying, like, the thing we know about Steve Clark's Scotland team is they never get beaten badly. You know, they never get beaten, they don't get what was it, what was the actual phrase? But it was it was along the lines of we ain't getting pumped because it's Steve Clark Scotland, and Neil McCann was like, I'm glad you said that, Ailey, because yeah, under Steve Clark, I was like, no, don't say that. You're crossing us immediately. Absolutely brutal. Um, but Laura, you've worked with David Boys. Do you think he would be up for the Scotland job even though there's a year left and he's ever in contract?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

That's not an exclusive insight, but did he ever bring it did he ever did he ever talk about it at all?

SPEAKER_00 26:15

No, I just think he's I just I just by his mentality, I think he would I think he would, but I would hate it. Really?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Why? Just just what just the way he is? Um I think he's just as difficult to interview as Steve Clark.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

We've had our spoonful of doer managers that um and I don't think he's got the same presence when it comes to Clark. You can take doer and arrogant, but have a presence and an ability as well. I don't think he's got that.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

I think I think most managers are doer, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 26:47

If if money were no object, because you do have to pay quite a lot of money to to managers these days, especially international ones, who would be the kind of person you'd want to see us go for? Maybe ask a question to Laura for first of all because I think I probably know your answer, Andrew.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

I honestly don't know. Uh I I'm honestly sitting here, I do not have an answer. Um I really don't enjoy the conversations of who's next, who would you get in? I honestly I don't know. It's um it's difficult for me because it feels like I'm replacing like a dead pet at this point and I I need a I need a time to time without first to post.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

The thing is, it is a it is a hard job. We can slag the SFA off all we want, but at the end of the day, it's a bloody hard thing to do to appoint a manager because the fact of the matter is Steve Clark's a very lucky manager too, right? He he inherited a squad of players that went on to be Ballon d'Or nominees, winning Champions League and Premier League titles, European trophies, you know, the all the players do that, right? And Steve Clark had those players at his disposal. So whoever comes in next, I just hope that the whole the if it even if it is Stephen Naismith, we have to get behind him. We could be miserable all we want, but maybe something might happen.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Of course, you have to get behind the national team manager, and we will do like we'll we'll we'll find reasons to get excited about it. I think Steven Naismith would be a disaster because he's not he never played at the level that most of those players are playing at. I think you need somebody who's worked in an elite level environment, and again, with the best will in the world, I'm sorry, working at West Brom, Reading, and Kilmarnock is not an elite level environment. Personally, I would look further afield than Scotland. I think most people are stung because of the Bertie Votes experiment, if you want to call it that. He was uh maybe a bit of a dinosaur by the point he took over, but he he was a a European uh sorry, a Euros winning manager, and he was left an absolute detritus by Craig Brown because it was an aging squad and he never brought any any youth in. So I I would be looking further afield to somebody who's managed at a far higher elite level. I think that's why of the people I know the SFA will be looking at, Davy Moys, I think, is one of the best ones or better ones to go for because he he does have that background, he's worked at the elite level of the Premier League clubs like Manchester United and stuff, maybe jobs that are too big. He's worked abroad. I just think he would bring a level, he knows how I just think a better manager, and Steve Clark is a good manager, but a better one at that level would get more out of that crop of players. I think they've been woefully underutilised as well under Clark. Spot.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Finn, well wrapped up, pal. Laura, we'll cheer up. I'll cheer up eventually. But if you are still listening to this podcast, go and listen to something else now. Bye bye Steve Park. Goodbye.